1) D&D game 2 nights in a row, second one popped up last minute and was not at my house; trying to get the schedules of 5 grown men to mesh such that we can actually play is a such a nightmare that when an opportunity pops up, you take it.

2) Schedule at work has recently been flipped completely upside down and it's ****ing with my sleep schedule/energy hard. The last 3 months I've been getting off at roughly midnight, 1 AM, getting to bed around 2 or 3, and getting up around 11-1. Now I'm GOING to work at 7 AM and getting off around 3-4. I napped the entire afternoon away.

3) I DID try send a vote in at the eleventh hour, but my PM's don't seem to want to send for some reason??? Seems I recall seeing a thread about this somewhere :/

@Junichi/anyone else who "doesn't buy it" when I say RL is an interfering factor: I remember the first game I ever played of this and ryan2754 was using RL has his reasoning for random/infrequent posts....he was having lots of exams or some such in med school at the time and was super stressed. I called BS and said he was using RL as a cover for Mafia; big mistake. He bit my head off and told me that questioning his integrity like that was a major insult. I'm not gonna bite anyone's head off, but I DO find the notion that I would lie about these sorts of issues to be insulting. If I say RL is interfering, then RL is interfering.

Hell, even when I was "Mafia" (Troll) I posted more often than most of the Cits. Hiding in the shadows just isn't my way.

Now, I'm starting to adjust to my new schedule, I don't have D&D for at least a week, and I don't have the money for booze, so I can up my post count more again, but if everyone would prefer I seek a replacement then feel free to say so. I'm not gonna bother with any more analysis until I hear a consensus regarding that.

@Ray: 3.5 all the way, **** on 4.0.

@Liq: For what it's worth I tried to vote Yaku; since my PM system just seems to not be working for whatever reason, I'll post my votes on the board here and you can go with my last known vote/highest suspect. Will that work?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gawain:
P.S.(S?)

---

It's P.P.S. P.S. is Latin for Post Script; Post = after, Script = write. So, the P.S. is the message after the main thing you write, while the thing that comes after the the thing that comes after the main thing you wrote is the after after write = post-postscript => P.P.S.

Back to the game:

I don't think there's too much to be read into the ryan2754 kill, other than possibly showing a pattern of going after established players (MeddlingMage then ryan2754) assuming that fwybwed killed BernieB. ryan2754's only post after the lynch and before the night kill only was to justify his vote and why keeping the SK doesn't help us.

Does anyone else think that the night phase went by fairly quickly? Late last night, Liq posted the lynch kill, then this morning we got the results of at least the Mafia leader, and possibly the Cop, Doctor, or other roles (Watcher, Tracker, etc.). So, did the Mafia leader convene very quickly? Did they plan ahead assuming that fwy would die? Did the Mafia leader not take any input from his fellow Mafia?

Here's the history of (declared) voting, as I see it; I ignored suspect lists that didn't openly say, "I'm going to vote for" or "I'm leaning towards voting for", so I get a slightly different list from ryan2754 who got earlier declared "votes" from OGB and others:

Montague: "I will probably be voting for" {thror, junichi, yakusoku}. (I.E. someone who was "freaking out")

ryan2754: WCFmo

junichi: Gawain

hilikuS: Zakman86

thror: junichi or Ray

ray: fwybwed or LA3

Montague: "I want to vote for somebody who has" plagiarized.

yakusoku: fwybwed, Montague, or Gawain

thror: ray or junichi

ray: fwybwed

hilikuS: Zakman86

yakusoku: fwybwed

junichi: Gawain

Zakman86: thror

Jack: yakusoku or fwybwed

WCFmo: fwybwed

LA3: ray

OGB: LA3

Montague: ray

thror: Jack

FINAL VOTES:

fwybwed - rayragnarok (1)
Gawain - No Vote Received
hilikuS - Zakman86 (1)
JackSpade - yakusoku (1)
junichi - Gawain (1)
LA3 - rayragnarok (2)
Montague - rayragnarok (3)
OGB - LA3 (1)
rayragnarok - fwybwed (1)
ryan2754 - fwybwed (2)
thror - JackSpade (1)
WCFmo - fwybwed (3)
yakusoku - fwybwed (4)
Zakman86 - thror (1)

There was no blatant vote switching that I can see. Possible notes of interest:

thror's last minute vote for Jack (singleton vote)
Montague's vote for ray (pile on?)
OGB's third to last declared vote for LA3 (singleton vote)
LA3's vote for ray (random vote)
WCFmo's vote for fwy (last, deciding vote)
Jack's vote for yakusoku (did he ever finalize he was voting for me and not fwy?)
Zak for thror (singleton)
junichi for Gawain (singleton)

Don't take offense of my remarks about you. I thought maybe you after a full day after your posting about the d&d game you were involved in that the fact you didn't post in the next 24 hours, led me to believe you had a role. If you do have a role i certainly can't point it out.

I was merely stating if you were too tied up in real to ask to be replaced. Heck, i would've asked for a replacement before you. But i came to my senses and decided to keep playing.

Everyone gets busy when they get involved in soemthing online. I'm sure we would all want you to continue participating in the game.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LA3:

@ogb- are you really busy as gawain, or are you playing the same trick and being slick and only posting in a blue moon. To me excellent mafia move.

medium suspects right now are Gawain and OGB

---

I can't help but feel this is a bit retaliatory beacuse I voted for you after your random vote. Why not also call out Jack and Zak, who also didn't post a lot in R1?

quote:

---

Originally posted by LA3:
What if OGB has a role.

Point i'm saying is if you have an important role and you want to stay longer in the game, wouldn't you be a little more quieter than usual.

---

Well if you look back at Mafia 12, I posted 4 times in R1, this game I posted 3 times. I post when I can and I have something meaningful to contribute. Posting things like "I'll read over and post my thoughts later" doesn't really count as a post to me. It seems like you're turning the tables a little bit here, using peoples' playstyle against them when that's the very thing you almost quit over.

So, LA3, besides the quantity of my postings, what is it, about the substance and quality of my posts that makes you think I'm mafia?

As far as Gawain's no vote - it's semi-suspicious, but I'm inclined to give him a pass because he did declare a vote in the thread, and there have been PM issues that have been documented on the MOTL (I've run into them while trying to complete trades this week).

It's also interesting to note that ryan voted for fwy in R1, but then fwy was the NK. FWY voted for ray so I'll be looking at him, and also who he got into it with in R1 as a possible frame-up ploy.

So as of right now, my suspicion list is LA3, Jack and Ray, in that order.

You know what all i did was point out soemthing that maybe i overlooked. So now you say i may be mafia. I kidd you not, how do i know you do or do not have a role.

Another thing let this bit about how i post pass, its done and i'm trying to change my posting style.

So get over it OGB

quote:

---

Originally posted by LA3:
@ogb

You know what all i did was point out soemthing that maybe i overlooked. So now you say i may be mafia. I kidd you not, how do i know you do or do not have a role.

Another thing let this bit about how i post pass, its done and i'm trying to change my posting style.

So get over it OGB

Gut feeling about OGB-not changed possible mafia

---

I'm over it, and if I upset you by bringing it up, I apologize.

But you still haven't answered my question, LA3. So far, your posts about me have been information instead of analysis (IIoA). You've said "OGB posted 3 times, I think he's mafia."

So again, what about the quality or the substance of those posts in R1 makes you think that I am mafia?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gawain:
@Liq: For what it's worth I tried to vote Yaku; since my PM system just seems to not be working for whatever reason, I'll post my votes on the board here and you can go with my last known vote/highest suspect. Will that work?

---

Last I remember those using Google Chrome were having problems using the MOTL PM system. Since this is a current concern, I will accept the {VOTE:} tag used by the tracker.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liq:
Last I remember those using Google Chrome were having problems using the MOTL PM system. Since this is a current concern, I will accept the {VOTE:} tag used by the tracker.

---

Yeah it's still busted. I've been having to use... dun dun dun, Internet Explorer for my PMs.

Beyond that, I can provide my own take on the R1 votes. Taking gawain's reply about his vote in truth, the piles shake out like this :

FWY Votes
RAY
Ryan
WCFmo
YAK

Ray Votes
FWY
LA3
Monty

Yaku Votes
GAW
JACK

Single Votes
HILI - ZAK
JUN - GAW
OGB - LA3
THROR - JACK
ZAK/Jaz - THROR

Because of the spread in R1, I assume that none of the mafia share the same vote. Once fwy came out as SK, only ryan pushed for his removal, and nobody else jumped on the chance. I'm still suspicious of Ray, because of the behavior pattern I mentioned previously. Jack's continued absence is again in contrast to his previous game, and his seemingly single vote for Yak instead of Fwy feels like he deliberately tried to stay out of the Fwy pile.

I stand by my R1 vote of Jack, and, while not 100% sure he is mafia, it will take a lot to sway me from voting him this round as well.

(aside @ gawain: keep playing please. RL happens)

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

quote:

---

Originally posted by yakusoku:

Here's the history of (declared) voting, as I see it; ...

Montague: "I will probably be voting for" {thror, junichi, yakusoku}. (I.E. someone who was "freaking out")

---

I don't recall him saying specifically those three people were freaking out. I don't want to reread the thread, but I don't remember him specifically saying those three people were freaking out. Did you Monty?

quote:

---

Originally posted by yakusoku:

ray: fwybwed or LA3

yakusoku: fwybwed, Montague, or Gawain

ray: fwybwed

yakusoku: fwybwed

Jack: yakusoku or fwybwed

WCFmo: fwybwed

...

There was no blatant vote switching that I can see. Possible notes of interest:

thror's last minute vote for Jack (singleton vote)
Montague's vote for ray (pile on?)
OGB's third to last declared vote for LA3 (singleton vote)
LA3's vote for ray (random vote)
WCFmo's vote for fwy (last, deciding vote)
Jack's vote for yakusoku (did he ever finalize he was voting for me and not fwy?)
Zak for thror (singleton)
junichi for Gawain (singleton)

If anyone wants to correct or comment, I would appreciate it very much.

---

Ummm how is my vote the "last, deciding vote" when half the votes on FWY were "FWY or ____" type votes? Also, I'm not sure where I recall Ryan says he's definitely voting FWY but you left it out in your summary. Also, considering the ability of anyone to change their vote, and I wasn't on until the morning, I find it hard to believe you think I was the one vote who decided if FWY got lynched.

@ Thror - was confused at your voting list as it was different than mine, looks like you counted GAW's declare.

@ GAW - http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/017032.html - That thread was going around for a couple of weeks, seems Chrome's update messes up things like Liq said above. Also, re: your consensus question, it's your call buddy

Jaz - where you at?

I'll post tomorrow.

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:
I don't recall him saying specifically those three people were freaking out. I don't want to reread the thread, but I don't remember him specifically saying those three people were freaking out. Did you Monty?

---

Even though everything that is said in this thread is typed out right there for you to see it, I'll go ahead and answer your question.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Montague:
Everybody is in such a rush and want's everybody to come on here and say what they are thinking, so here it goes.

It sucks that we lost 2 masons. This round, like every round after the first NK, there is almost no information to go on. I find it suspicious that people are coming on here freaking out about everybody needing to say what is on their mind now. Nothing is really on their mind. It is the first round. Settle down. I will probally be voting for somebody who is freaking out,

---

Junichi- Pretty much latched onto Gawain from the beginning, but doesn’t try very hard. Uses the excuse that he “doesn’t like people to use RL reasons as an excuse”. He tries to seem helpful, like when he got an answer from Liq about the SK having to kill somebody every round and to correct Yaku’s “posts per person” update. I feel like this maybe one of those situations where mafia comes out and suspects one of their own, just in case they get lynched as to make it look like the person they were suspecting were not mafia. Anyway, I suspect him because to me it feels like he is trying to be helpful, while remaining low key and not actually being helpful.

JackSpade- Started the game “out of town” so he didn’t post until page 4. Its funny that his first post suspected ryan, and included:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JackSpade:
Still waiting on Gawain's post, not sure what morning he was talking about.

---

That was just funny, because I play a quiet game but I don’t call people out for not posting! His next post says he was suspicious of Yak because of all of the info he is posting. Second is fwy because his posts seemed “forced”. When confronted by WCF about changing, he kinda shrugged it off.

quote:

---

Originally posted by WCFmo:
I don't recall him saying specifically those three people were freaking out. I don't want to reread the thread, but I don't remember him specifically saying those three people were freaking out.

---

He didn't specifically name those names. However, if I just had written, "Montague: voting for someone who was freaking out." I'd be questioned right away who was freaking out because he didn't specify at the time who was freaking out. I can change my post if you like, but it's either going to have those three names as information I inferred, or it is going to have the vague term "people who were freaking out" without any explanation.

quote:

---

Ummm how is my vote the "last, deciding vote"

---

It's the last declared vote, that swings the vote tally into fwy's favor. I realize that the real time voting may not work that way, but I am not privvy to that information, and neither are other people who read this thread.

quote:

---

Also, I'm not sure where I recall Ryan says he's definitely voting FWY but you left it out in your summary.

---

If you can find that, I'd appreciate it, but I only found the post where he confirms his vote (saying he wasn't going to change his vote away from fwy after he declared himself the SK), but I never saw a post saying, "I'm voting for fwy". Like I wrote in that voting history post, I only recorded actual declared votes, not anyone's suspicions or leans or anything like that. As far as I can see, ryan might have suspected fwy, sent in his vote sometime, and the last day confirmed his vote. Since I was trying to establish a timeline, I'm not sure how to fit that in.

quote:

---

Also, considering the ability of anyone to change their vote, and I wasn't on until the morning, I find it hard to believe you think I was the one vote who decided if FWY got lynched.

---

It's perhaps a poor choice of words, but you were the last one to post they were voting for fwy. I'm just trying to figure out if someone waited until the last moment to vote, waiting to see how everyone else voted before declaring their vote. You may have voted before someone else, but can you point out anyone who posted a vote for fwy after you? Can you point out anyone who changed their vote after they declared their vote, either a vote for fwy that was changed to someone else or a vote for someone else that was changed to fwy?

All that being said, I'm not comfortable with the fact that Jack declared for me or fwy and then ultimately voted for me without saying so. Unfortunately for you, that puts you in the position of being the final and deciding vote, because Jack decided in the end not to vote for fwy.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Montague:
Stuff

---

People aren't freaking out about others being quiet, but it is always a concern when we have people who rarely post at all. We don't know if they are lurking, or just inactive, which really hurts the citizen. Lets be honest here, people are expected to post when they decided to join this game, so unless there are some unexpected circumstances, there is simply no reason to not post.

Currently, Gawain is still my top suspect. He didn't post much, and didn't vote. His excuse for not voting is what makes him my top suspect for this round, and here are the reasons:

1.) For someone that lurks around GD, I would expect him to know about the PM problem with Chrome, which happened couple weeks ago.

2.) It's almost as if he is trying to tell us on purpose that he didn't know the pm doesn't work, hence, he can't possibly be a mafia or have any special role.

__________________
40 Eye of Ugin and 4 foil Eye of Ugin for Black Lotus!?

Unless i missed something i am pretty sure

JackSpade
Ray or
Zak/Jaz

may have roles

OGB and Monty are citizens

ones i can't get reads on are

WCFmo
Yaku
HilikuS
Junichi
Thror

Gawain i have a problem with

he mentions one time he will post but not my style.

@gawain, how true is this

You mention that while reading yakus post you lost interest and then say seen nary a thing on one his posts

Gawain, you can't lose interest and then not seen anything. Perhaps you saw something and then lost interest

can't be both, and i think your hiding something.

Note; For right now thats all i have, mondays are typically busy at work. I will post later with more analysis

Tentative vote-Gawain

quote:

---

Originally posted by junichi:
People aren't freaking out about others being quiet, but it is always a concern when we have people who rarely post at all. We don't know if they are lurking, or just inactive, which really hurts the citizen. Lets be honest here, people are expected to post when they decided to join this game, so unless there are some unexpected circumstances, there is simply no reason to not post.

Currently, Gawain is still my top suspect. He didn't post much, and didn't vote. His excuse for not voting is what makes him my top suspect for this round, and here are the reasons:

1.) For someone that lurks around GD, I would expect him to know about the PM problem with Chrome, which happened couple weeks ago.

2.) It's almost as if he is trying to tell us on purpose that he didn't know the pm doesn't work, hence, he can't possibly be a mafia or have any special role.

---

I almost wish Yaku was still doing his post count, because at this point, I have a feeling that you and I are probably about neck and neck. I'm not the only one being (relatively) quiet here my friend. Look in the mirror. And beyond that, you're not really saying anything substantive, and you're tunneling HARD. You're not even mentioning a single other player in your posts, it's just "Gawain this" and "Gawain that."

1) I DO lurk around the GD, but not that frequently these days, and the only Thread/s I keep up with is the PFS and Mafia if it's going. I don't typically read any of the others, and though I saw that thread regarding the PM system not working, I didn't read it, and I didn't feel like/know that it was relevant to me. I almost never even check my PM's anymore, as I don't trade and have no real need for it (unless I'm playing). So, trying to send my vote was my first experience with it not working for me.

2) I WAS trying to tell you on purpose, or rather, Liq. I couldn't very well PM him, so I had to say it on the thread here. And I'm not saying I couldn't POSSIBLY have a role or be Mafia; anyone could. What I wonder is, how do you make that connection? How do you infer that because I'm trying to explain why I didn't vote, I'm Mafia? And this is WIFOM to a degree, but if I WAS Mafia, why in HELL would I draw so much potential attention to myself by being the ONLY one who doesn't vote in the FIRST DAMNED ROUND?

I hate suspecting those who suspect me, but your argument is really flimsy, and your tunneling is either really suspicious, or just fundamentally counter-productive (potentially anti-town).

I currently still suspect Yaku, but a little less. I now suspect you (Junichi) a lot more. Tentatively leaning towards voting Junichi.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LA3:
Still of lot of information to go thru bits by bits, however i have a few opinions

Unless i missed something i am pretty sure

JackSpade
Ray or
Zak/Jaz

may have roles

OGB and Monty are citizens

ones i can't get reads on are

WCFmo
Yaku
HilikuS
Junichi
Thror

Gawain i have a problem with

he mentions one time he will post but not my style.

@gawain, how true is this

You mention that while reading yakus post you lost interest and then say seen nary a thing on one his posts

Gawain, you can't lose interest and then not seen anything. Perhaps you saw something and then lost interest

can't be both, and i think your hiding something.

Note; For right now thats all i have, mondays are typically busy at work. I will post later with more analysis

Tentative vote-Gawain

edit-typo

---

First, let me say that I want to complement you on the effort you're obviously putting in to better your game. I've seen more substantive posts from you this round than I have in every other game of Mafia/Werewolf I've ever seen you play. Kudos.

That said, are you really hitting me with a minor semantic difference in interpretation of my statement as your evidence that I'm hiding something? If it helps, let me clarify for you: If I'm pressed for time, drunk, tired, what have you, and I see a post with that many numbers (formulas, etc.) in it, I skim. I understood what he was trying to say with the math plenty well enough to not need the math to be there, and it made my brain hurt because I flippin' hate math, so I skimmed the post instead of reading it word for word, number for number. This tends to be my reaction whenever I see equations, formulas, or long strings of numbers in a post. It's a weakness of mine as I player, I admit, but it's just the way I am. Hate, hate, hate math.

There was a post Thror made that rang some alarm bells for me, but I couldn't find it earlier and wanted to go ahead and let you guys know I was alive. I'll dig back through, find it, and add it in as an edit shortly.

EDIT: This is the Thror post I mentioned:

quote:

---

Originally posted by thror:
Well, that is a blessing and a curse. We know everything ryan said was truthful. Whether it was accurate or not is up to us to decide. I was actually going to suggest an info-lynch of Ryan this round to determine his truthfulness (much like what happens to PD). After Fwy, his suspects included Montague and Jackspade. Im going to take more time tomorrow to do a deeper analysis, kinda busy today but some cursory thoughts.

I do know Ray IRL, and can account for most of his absences (wednesday, for example, we were both working - we work together too). Ray was mafia leader last game, and i did follow that one. The problem is (and this is what everyone should be doing), people try to play the SAME game when they are a cit vs when they are mafia. Makes them much harder to pick out. While i do find ray suspicious to an extent, the way Jack acted R1 is much different from last game, and i felt that warranted my vote. Had i changed, there would have been a tie and a coinflip. Removing a SK is probably more important right now, before we lose too many players. There are 12 of us left, and 4 are mafia. That would have given FWY a 1 in 3 chance to hit mafia, and i dont like those odds. We can still lynch Ray if his behavior warrants it.

I actually have this weekend off, so i'll have time to review the last 5 pages and make a real analysis.

---

@thror: I actually cast my vote for Yak right after i finished that post, decided between him and fwyb with a dice roll. But I see no reason to try and stay out of the fwyb pile as arguments where and can be made for his lynch/non-lynch. And all the singleton votes make pile analysis kinda of difficult at this point.

@Yak: So you're voting for me because I voted for you or because I didn't vote for fwy? I thought the debate was still ongoing as to whether getting rid of the serial killer was a good or bad thing? For my part I would have prefer fwyb in the game. Last game his instincts where pretty good, he sniffed out one mafia member. And you all seem to forget that yes we know hes not a cit, but him being the SK also means hes not mafia. Also it would have made the game go faster which, as were seeing now, can slow to a crawl at times. And by revealing himself so early he killed his chances to win anything, it seemed he was taking a pro town position (this perhaps goes against the spirit of his role, but that's another debate).

@hili and others who have mentioned my play being different this game: My play is different this round mainly because DUN DUN DUN..... im busy.

@Monty: I wasnt trying to single out Gawain for not posting it was more of me working on my post and going "uhhmmmm anything else i can say, wonder whats up with gawains post". I was sort of stating my status. And really now i have no right calling anyone out on lack of posts.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JackSpade:

@hili and others who have mentioned my play being different this game: My play is different this round mainly because DUN DUN DUN..... im busy.

---

It's cool man, but playstyle changes can be a tell. I'll keep that in mind though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JackSpade:
So you're voting for me because I voted for you or because I didn't vote for fwy?

---

Neither. I'm leaning towards you because you didn't declare your final vote. You said you would vote for either me or fwybwed, and then then you voted in secret. Maybe that was a mistake on your part, or you didn't realize that it hurts Cits to do that, but hiding information is also what Mafia do.

quote:

---

I thought the debate was still ongoing as to whether getting rid of the serial killer was a good or bad thing?

---

Yes, but ryan2754 didn't waffle on his vote and the discussion was more along the lines of "should we not vote for fwybwed?". No one actually changed their votes that I can see, but you said you decided your vote AFTER posting, and then didn't let us know.

It's not who you voted for, but the *way* you voted that makes me suspicious. It's better than not declaring your vote, but in theory you still could have waited until everyone else declared their vote and seeing that fwybwed was going down, change your vote to me so that if anyone went after someone in the fwybwed for dogpiling, you wouldn't be among them.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gawain:
I almost wish Yaku was still doing his post count, because at this point, I have a feeling that you and I are probably about neck and neck. I'm not the only one being (relatively) quiet here my friend. Look in the mirror. And beyond that, you're not really saying anything substantive, and you're tunneling HARD. You're not even mentioning a single other player in your posts, it's just "Gawain this" and "Gawain that."

1) I DO lurk around the GD, but not that frequently these days, and the only Thread/s I keep up with is the PFS and Mafia if it's going. I don't typically read any of the others, and though I saw that thread regarding the PM system not working, I didn't read it, and I didn't feel like/know that it was relevant to me. I almost never even check my PM's anymore, as I don't trade and have no real need for it (unless I'm playing). So, trying to send my vote was my first experience with it not working for me.

2) I WAS trying to tell you on purpose, or rather, Liq. I couldn't very well PM him, so I had to say it on the thread here. And I'm not saying I couldn't POSSIBLY have a role or be Mafia; anyone could. What I wonder is, how do you make that connection? How do you infer that because I'm trying to explain why I didn't vote, I'm Mafia? And this is WIFOM to a degree, but if I WAS Mafia, why in HELL would I draw so much potential attention to myself by being the ONLY one who doesn't vote in the FIRST DAMNED ROUND?

I hate suspecting those who suspect me, but your argument is really flimsy, and your tunneling is either really suspicious, or just fundamentally counter-productive (potentially anti-town).

I currently still suspect Yaku, but a little less. I now suspect you (Junichi) a lot more. Tentatively leaning towards voting Junichi.

First, let me say that I want to complement you on the effort you're obviously putting in to better your game. I've seen more substantive posts from you this round than I have in every other game of Mafia/Werewolf I've ever seen you play. Kudos.

That said, are you really hitting me with a minor semantic difference in interpretation of my statement as your evidence that I'm hiding something? If it helps, let me clarify for you: If I'm pressed for time, drunk, tired, what have you, and I see a post with that many numbers (formulas, etc.) in it, I skim. I understood what he was trying to say with the math plenty well enough to not need the math to be there, and it made my brain hurt because I flippin' hate math, so I skimmed the post instead of reading it word for word, number for number. This tends to be my reaction whenever I see equations, formulas, or long strings of numbers in a post. It's a weakness of mine as I player, I admit, but it's just the way I am. Hate, hate, hate math.

There was a post Thror made that rang some alarm bells for me, but I couldn't find it earlier and wanted to go ahead and let you guys know I was alive. I'll dig back through, find it, and add it in as an edit shortly.

EDIT: This is the Thror post I mentioned:

And upon re-reading it, it doesn't seem as suspicious to me as it did the first time. Not quite sure what set me off about it initially, except that the first few sentences seem slightly...I dunno, disingenuous or something. I can't really find anything terribly substantive in there at this point though, so meh. I'll keep a closer eye on Thror's posts, but don't really have a solid reason to suspect him at this point.

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It is not unusual for a mafia member to purposely miss a first round vote. Remember the salvation game where you and Trand were both mafia? He purposely missed the first round vote because he knew he can get away with it. Out of everyone here, you should know better.

__________________
40 Eye of Ugin and 4 foil Eye of Ugin for Black Lotus!?

quote:

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Originally posted by junichi:
It is not unusual for a mafia member to purposely miss a first round vote. Remember the salvation game where you and Trand were both mafia? He purposely missed the first round vote because he knew he can get away with it. Out of everyone here, you should know better.

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Then vote me off, and see what happens. You'll find out that I'm a Cit, and if you are as well, you'll feel like a fool. And if you're not, the remaining Cits will (hopefully) have the sense to heavily scrutinize your every post up to this point and catch you in what you're doing.

My point is, the entire basis of your case against me at this point is the fact that RL issues have kept me from posting as much as I normally would. I have tried every way I know how without straight up going off on you to tell you that I wouldn't lie about RL to cover my tracks as a Mafia; not only do I have more personal integrity than that, but as Hili mentioned earlier, if someone were ever even once caught in the act of doing such a thing, then all other RL excuses in the future, whether real or otherwise, would be considered suspect, which isn't fair to those for whom RL genuinely interferes. I have too much respect and regard for the people on this forum, of which I've been a member for a decade now, to do such a thing to any of them, let alone all who play this game. If you have some OTHER reason for suspecting me, fine, get it out there and legitimize your case. Otherwise, kindly step off and let's make some actual progress in this game.

Speaking of which....Jaz, where you be?

EDIT: I just read back through my post and realized that my language sounded really confrontational, crappy, and just generally rude. You have my apologies. I'm in the midst of a nasty text message fight with my girlfriend and my patience is pretty strained at the moment, and I shouldn't have taken it out on you. My suspicion stands, and my message regarding the fact that I think your suspicion regarding my RL "excuses" stands, but I should have found a more tactful way to say it. I'm sorry.

quote:

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Originally posted by junichi:
It is not unusual for a mafia member to purposely miss a first round vote. Remember the salvation game where you and Trand were both mafia? He purposely missed the first round vote because he knew he can get away with it. Out of everyone here, you should know better.

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Junichi - I do remember Trand missing that vote, but I don't remember him saying it was on purpose. When you say "it is not unusual"...how common are we talking here?

@ Jack - what about my questions?

quote:

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Originally posted by JackSpade:
Answering some comments directed at me:
...
@Liq: So is it Turkey or Turnkey? I thought you were going for a Celebration of the Genocide of the Indigenous People Day reference. Was it just a typo or are you being clever?

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Huh?

@ Monty - I was asking for you specifically to list who was freaking out - your list which is different than the list Yak made is why I was asking.

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Originally posted by yakusoku:
I'd be questioned right away who was freaking out because he didn't specify at the time who was freaking out. I can change my post if you like, but it's either going to have those three names as information I inferred, or it is going to have the vague term "people who were freaking out" without any explanation.

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I think you should leave the post to its relevant intent. As Monty's post indicates (I believe) his list was different than yours.

HILI - who are you suspicious of now?

@WCFmo: http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/016900-3.html

@Gawain: I am actually glad you made that post. I'm not completely sold on everything you said, but your frustration in that post did show some "you've wronged me" vibe. I can't say you are not mafia, but you did make me want to think twice about voting for you.

__________________
40 Eye of Ugin and 4 foil Eye of Ugin for Black Lotus!?

quote:

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Originally posted by WCFmo:

@ Jack - what about my questions?

Huh?

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Im not sure what questions you're talking about. I thought I had answered yours. It is late and after a quick skim I cant find them, mind just pointing them out to me?

@Jaz - I know she's busy with the Secret Santa exchange and what not, but a post from her would be nice...

quote:

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Originally posted by JackSpade:
Im not sure what questions you're talking about. I thought I had answered yours. It is late and after a quick skim I cant find them, mind just pointing them out to me?

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quote:

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Originally posted by WCFmo:
Where'd you go this weekend if you were on vacation? Also, your next-to-last post suggested you suspected Ryan and Gawain, now you suspect YAK and FWY? You seem to be latching onto whatever suspicion you can.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JackSpade:
Isn't that what we're all doing? Can your really claim to be suspicious enough of one person that you're sure they're mafia. Isn't that how a lot of rounds go, with some cit getting lynched because someone was "sure" that they're mafia. I'm reading and rereading stuff trying to find something that pops out at me and then post it to see if anyone has any similar thoughts or reaction, that's how I play.

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quote:

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Originally posted by WCFmo:
@ JACK - earlier you asked

My post pointed out that you were latching onto other people's suspicions, not that you can't change who you suspect...that would be ludicrous. Based on your two posts prior to this one you suspected people whose names had been brought up just prior to your post and it feels like you were just voicing other people's thoughts. Fair enough?

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A couple of questions in there. Is it just coincidence that the people you had listed as suspicious R1 were also just previously mentioned in the thread? It goes against what you said where you come on here and suggest, rather you come on here and digest the current suspicions and then spit them out?

EDIT (Above, emphasized just)