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Author	Topic: Rulings thread #14, Post all rulings questions here
Vampric Doctor Member	posted January 22, 2003 02:57 PM Another question on responding to your own spells. My opponent plays WoG, can I activate Merfolk Looter in response, discard arrogant wurm, remove it from the game for madness, let WoG resolve then pay wurm madness? Trevor __________________ 1st in refs and posts in Vinton, Iowa Winner of of Eclichny's Apprentice Tourneys 1 time(s) Top 18 in Survivor 4.
FyreStar Member	posted January 22, 2003 03:12 PM quote: Originally posted by Vampric Doctor: Another question on responding to your own spells. My opponent plays WoG, can I activate Merfolk Looter in response, discard arrogant wurm, remove it from the game for madness, let WoG resolve then pay wurm madness? Nope. When something is removed from the game via madness, it is only available to be played until you pass priority next. Since you have to pass priority for the Wrath of God to resolve, you don't get a chance to play the Wurm afterwards. __________________ You can't cheat an honest man.
FyreStar Member	posted January 22, 2003 03:57 PM LEGIONS FAQ http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0301d&L=dcijudge-l&F=&S=&P=959 __________________ You can't cheat an honest man.
sawa_boon Member	posted January 23, 2003 02:17 AM I'm still confused with the double strike. like: If i attack with a 2/2 double strike (the only ability) creature and my opponent blocks with a normal 2/2 creature, what happens? does my opponent take the second damage, or is it considered blocked? as the question above, what if the 2/2 double strike is now a 5/5 double striking trampler? how do i assign damage of my attacking creature with double strike, to the defenders creature with protection of color/creature, creature with 1st strike, creature with double strike, or creature that has" whenever deal cambat damage destroy attacker".
Gabethebabe Member	posted January 23, 2003 03:04 AM If I attack with a 2/2 double strike (the only ability) creature and my opponent blocks with a normal 2/2 creature, what happens? does my opponent take the second damage, or is it considered blocked? It is considered blocked and does not deal damage to the player. as the question above, what if the 2/2 double strike is now a 5/5 double striking trampler? In the first strike step you will probably deal 2 to the blocker and 3 to the defender. In the normale damage step, the doublestriking trampler will do another 5. how do I assign damage of my attacking creature with double strike, to the defenders creature with protection of color/creature You will deal damage to the creature with protection and in the normal damage step you will do that again, in both cases the damage will be prevented. creature with 1st strike If it survive the first strike of the blocker, it will do its damage to the blocker (if it is still there) or no damage (if the first-strike blocker already dead) creature with double strike First you do first strike and if both creatures survive, do the same damage in the normale damage step. E.g. a 1/4 DS attacker and a 2/2 DS defender will both die in the second combat damage step. or creature that has" whenever deal cambat damage destroy attacker" If that creature doesn´t have first strike and survives the first combat damage step, it will kill the double striker. If the creature has first strike (Voracious Cobra) your double striker will die in the first combat damage step [Edited 1 times, lastly by Gabethebabe on January 23, 2003]
Archangel110 Member	posted January 23, 2003 10:25 AM Whenever someone uses control magic on 1 of my creatures, does the stolen creature have haste?
FyreStar Member	posted January 23, 2003 11:00 AM quote: Originally posted by Archangel110: Whenever someone uses control magic on 1 of my creatures, does the stolen creature have haste? Nope. __________________ You can't cheat an honest man.
gzeiger Member	posted January 23, 2003 01:29 PM This is interesting: quote: If a creature has both double strike and trample, the combat damage it assigned during the first combat damage step will be considered when determining how much damage can trample through in the second combat damage step. So a blocker with protection still only gets to soak up damage equal to its toughness - in the normal combat damage step all double strike damage may be assigned to the player even when there's a surviving blocker in this case.
HustlerMay09 Member	posted January 23, 2003 03:03 PM Maybe I missed this question earlier ,but if you remove a face down creature from the game with astral slide, does it come back into play face up? Why or Why not?
TunaBoo Member	posted January 23, 2003 03:54 PM quote: Originally posted by HustlerMay09: Maybe I missed this question earlier ,but if you remove a face down creature from the game with astral slide, does it come back into play face up? Why or Why not? This is in the onslaught FAQ on several times on the thread. Yes. 217.7. Removed from the Game 217.7a Effects can remove cards from the game. Some effects may provide a way for the card to return to play and use the term “set aside.” Cards that are set aside this way are still removed from the game, even though that removal may be temporary. 217.7b Cards in the removed-from-the-game zone are kept face up and may be examined by either player at any time. Cards “removed from the game face down” can’t be examined by either player except when instructions allow it. 217.7c Cards that might return to play should be kept in separate piles to keep track of their respective ways of returning. Cards with no way of returning may be kept in one pile for each player, regardless of what removed them. __________________ Tuna's Most Wanted Card Of The Week: Asian BB Balance If you see one, drop me a line. I will hook j00 up phat! 2002 Runner up for: The Mimi Bobeck Award, The Big Bird Award, The AC/DC Award, The Homer Simpson Award, The Mike Bullard Award, The Chronicle Award.
sawa_boon Member	posted January 23, 2003 06:45 PM Originally posted by Gabethebabe: It is considered blocked and does not deal damage to the player. In the first strike step you will probably deal 2 to the blocker and 3 to the defender. In the normale damage step, the doublestriking trampler will do another 5. Cool. so... a DS creature will have 2 damage dealing step whenever it's been blocked. ok, just another one. If i have a 5/5 DS trampling attacker and my opponent block it with a 2/2(say... glory seeker). Before damage on the stack, i shock the blocker. so... do the DS trampler deal 10 damage to defending player? ( if the blocker is being removed before a trampling attacker deals damage, the trampling damage goes thru to defending player.... am i right about this?) hm.... i can imagine how strong would a DS trample or a DS provoke creature would be. if only they were constructed-playable......
raging_force Member	posted January 23, 2003 07:01 PM I got sorceress queen out. My opponent have a llanowar elves with rancor and armadillo cloak on it. so now the llanowar elf is 5/3 trample, if it deals damage you gain that much life. And he attacks me with it. I use the ability of the sorceress queen. Does the llanwar elves become a 0/2? __________________ email @ rjpbus@hotmail.com aim @ rj092109
CrowEricDraven Member	posted January 23, 2003 09:27 PM Greets! I was thinking about an old great combo today: The Enduring Renewal, ornithropter, Goblin Bombardment combo for a 1 turn kill. Something occured to me. If you have all three cards in play and you sac the thropter to the bombardment and it gets put back in your hand because of Enduring R. can you legealy re-cast it in the same turn, or would you need to have something like alluren out? Another question i have is about the card Mirri's Guile. The card is a green enchantment that reads: During your upkeep you may look at the top 3 cards of your libaray and put them back in any order. Lets say you have 2 of them out, so you look at the top 6, or 3 and arrage them and then another 3? Or do you just look at the top 3?
TunaBoo Member	posted January 23, 2003 09:59 PM Crow: Enduring renewal + thropter + goblin bombardment is game. It does infinite damage. It is a net deck called fruity pebbles. sawa_boon: If a blocker is removed before damage, with a trampler only you can assign all the damage to the player. __________________ Tuna's Most Wanted Card Of The Week: Asian BB Balance If you see one, drop me a line. I will hook j00 up phat! 2002 Runner up for: The Mimi Bobeck Award, The Big Bird Award, The AC/DC Award, The Homer Simpson Award, The Mike Bullard Award, The Chronicle Award. [Edited 1 times, lastly by TunaBoo on January 23, 2003]
gzeiger Member	posted January 23, 2003 10:39 PM Multiple instances of Mirri's Guile are redundant because they trigger separately. You look at the top three cards, arrange them in any order, return them, then look at the top three (which will be the same cards unless you did something in there to draw extras). EDIT: wrong answer __________________ DCI certified Level 2 judge gzeiger@hotmail.com [Edited 1 times, lastly by gzeiger on January 25, 2003]
sawa_boon Member	posted January 23, 2003 10:44 PM my question is: If i have a 5/5 DS trampling attacker and my opponent block it with a 2/2(say... glory seeker). Before damage on the stack, i shock the blocker. so... do the DS trampler deal 10 damage to defending player? the creature has trample and has double strike, and the blocker is removed before any combat damage is assigned or put on the stack. and since the creature has trample, the defender take full damage. my question is, does the defender take the combat damage from the DS creature twice or once? since the DS creature was blocked, the DS ability took place, and has no creature to assign damage hence the trample ability bring all damage to the defender, so.... does the defender take the trampled damage both 1st and 2nd combat damage dealing, or just once?
sawa_boon Member	posted January 23, 2003 10:49 PM quote: Originally posted by CrowEricDraven: Another question i have is about the card Mirri's Guile. The card is a green enchantment that reads: During your upkeep you may look at the top 3 cards of your libaray and put them back in any order. Lets say you have 2 of them out, so you look at the top 6, or 3 and arrage them and then another 3? Or do you just look at the top 3? both the ability trigger at the same time but resolve separately. So, the 1st guile's ability resolves and u look at top 3 cards. after putting them back in any order, the 2nd guile resolves and u get to look the top 3 cards again (same top 3 cards, unless u response by looting one of them away or some sort).
gzeiger Member	posted January 23, 2003 11:00 PM An unblocked (or trampling with no surviving blocker) creature with double strike assigns damage to the defending player during both the first strike and normal combat damage steps.
FyreStar Member	posted January 23, 2003 11:03 PM quote: Originally posted by gzeiger: Sorceress Queen still works exactly as printed on the Revised Edition card - you treat its modification as affecting only the card's initial characteristics. It doesn't affect other modifiers, so the Llanowar Elf in question ends up 4/4 trample spirit-linked (which ought to become a named ability). This doesn't happen any more. It was changed four or five years ago to be more intuitive and make continuous effects easier to apply. Now, the Sorceress Queen just makes the creature 0/2, regardless of what other modifiers are affecting it. Later modifications apply as normal. __________________ You can't cheat an honest man.
gzeiger Member	posted January 23, 2003 11:57 PM You're right. I'm not thinking clearly today
HustlerMay09 Member	posted January 24, 2003 05:02 AM If I remove a Volrath's Shapeshifter, which is a copy of Phage at the moment, from the game using Astral Slide, it should come back into play as a Volrath's Shapeshifter and then turn back into Phage. Am I correct here?
Gabethebabe Member	posted January 24, 2003 06:18 AM quote: Originally posted by HustlerMay09: If I remove a Volrath's Shapeshifter, which is a copy of Phage at the moment, from the game using Astral Slide, it should come back into play as a Volrath's Shapeshifter and then turn back into Phage. Am I correct here? The Shapeshifter will come back as a copy of Phage and it´s deadly CIP ability will trigger. 418.2. Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent coming into play. They don’t wait until the permanent is in play and then change it. Because such effects apply as the permanent comes into play, apply them before determining whether the permanent will cause an ability to trigger when it comes into play. (from Comprehensive Rules)
mulder Member	posted January 24, 2003 07:12 AM I have a creature with trampling in play, my opponent blocks and sends the creature back to his hand with boomerang. Does he still get trample damage?
GoingPostal Member	posted January 24, 2003 09:16 AM quote: Originally posted by mulder: I have a creature with trampling in play, my opponent blocks and sends the creature back to his hand with boomerang. Does he still get trample damage? I would think that he would. __________________ "If you look at it long enough, maybe it will go away" Yahoo ID: rjgill21 MSN ID: rjgill21@hotmail.com AIM ID: goingpostal2173 Need an Apprentice opponent? Look no further than right here!
TunaBoo Member	posted January 24, 2003 09:50 AM quote: Originally posted by mulder: I have a creature with trampling in play, my opponent blocks and sends the creature back to his hand with boomerang. Does he still get trample damage? Your friend just wasted a boomerang (but if he put damage on the stack first, he soaked up X damage, where X is the toughness of the blocker). __________________ Tuna's Most Wanted Card Of The Week: Asian BB Balance If you see one, drop me a line. I will hook j00 up phat! 2002 Runner up for: The Mimi Bobeck Award, The Big Bird Award, The AC/DC Award, The Homer Simpson Award, The Mike Bullard Award, The Chronicle Award.

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