posted January 15, 2003 07:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Black Rain:
yes there is a new rule that covers face down cards phasing out. it states that cards face down that phase out and phase in are not turned face up. here is the specific rules:

E.5.Ruling.5 - Phasing in and out does not turn a face down card face up
or otherwise reveal it. [Onslaught Rules 2002/09/15]

so in your example, friend b is right.

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posted January 15, 2003 07:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FyreStar:
No, he is wrong. Astral Slide [b]doesn't phase out a creature, it removes it from the game.

[/B]

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oh misread the question, thought it was a question on phasing

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posted January 15, 2003 07:39 PM            

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posted January 15, 2003 07:41 PM         

quote:

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Originally posted by GoingPostal:
If I have Nantuko Monestary in play, activate it to make it a 4/4 creature, and then put a creature enchantment on it, what happens at the end of the turn when it is just a land again and not a creature. Does it stay enchanted, or does the enchantment go to the graveyard?

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Goes to the GY unless it is rancor, in which case it goes to your hand

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posted January 15, 2003 07:49 PM            

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posted January 15, 2003 08:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by FyreStar:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Black Rain:
[b]yes there is a new rule that covers face down cards phasing out. it states that cards face down that phase out and phase in are not turned face up. here is the specific rules:

E.5.Ruling.5 - Phasing in and out does not turn a face down card face up
or otherwise reveal it. [Onslaught Rules 2002/09/15]

so in your example, friend b is right.

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[/B][/QUOTE]

This is getting confusing. so, at the end of the day, am i right about the "..... a card is removed from game, its faced-up unless stated. ...so, it comes back faced up as nothing would cause it to faced-down again" thing?

posted January 15, 2003 08:39 PM         

quote:

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502.15. Phasing

502.15a Phasing is a static ability that modifies the rules of the untap step.

502.15b During each player’s untap step, before that player untaps his or her permanents, all permanents with phasing the player controls phase out. Simultaneously, all permanents that had phased out under that player’s control phase in. (See rule 217.8, “Phased-Out,” and rule 302.3.)

502.15c If a spell or ability causes a player to skip his or her untap step, the phasing event simply doesn’t occur that turn.

502.15d Permanents phasing in don’t trigger any comes-into-play abilities, and effects that modify how a permanent comes into play are ignored. Abilities and effects that specifically mention phasing can modify or trigger on this event, however. Permanents phasing out trigger leaves-play abilities as usual. (Because no player receives priority during the untap step, any abilities triggering off of the phasing event won’t go onto the stack until the upkeep step begins.)

502.15e When a permanent phases out, all damage dealt to it is removed.

502.15f A card that returns to play from the phased-out zone is in some respects considered the same permanent it was when it left. This is an exception to rule 217.8, which stipulates that a permanent “forgets” its previous existence when it changes zones.

502.15g Effects with limited duration and delayed triggered abilities that specifically reference a permanent will be unable to further affect that permanent if it phases out. However, other effects that reference the permanent (including effects with unlimited duration) can affect the permanent when it returns to play.
Example: A creature is affected by Giant Growth and then phases out during the same turn. If the creature phases back in somehow before the turn is over, it won’t get the +3/+3 bonus from the Giant Growth because its effect has a limited duration.

502.15h Phased-out cards “remember” their past histories and will return to play in the same state. They “remember” any counters they had on them, any choices made when they first came into play, and whether they were tapped or untapped when they left play. They also “remember” who controlled them when they phased out, although they may phase in under the control of a different player if a control effect with limited duration has expired.
Example: Diseased Vermin reads, in part, “At the beginning of your upkeep, Diseased Vermin deals X damage to target opponent previously dealt damage by it, where X is the number of infection counters on it.” If Diseased Vermin phases out, it “remembers” how many counters it has and also which opponents it has previously damaged. When it phases back in, it will still be able to target those opponents with its upkeep-triggered ability.

502.15i When a permanent phases out, any local enchantments attached to that permanent phase out at the same time. This alternate way of phasing out is known as phasing out “indirectly.” An enchantment that phased out indirectly won’t phase in by itself, but instead phases in along with the card it’s attached to.

502.15j If a local enchantment phased out directly (rather than phasing out along with the permanent it’s attached to), then it “remembers” the permanent it was enchanting and returns to play attached to that permanent. If the permanent has left play or is no longer legal to enchant, the enchantment returns to play and then is placed in its owner’s graveyard afterwards. (This is a state-based effect. See rule 420.)

502.15k If two or more permanents phase in at the same time, the active player determines their relative timestamp order at the time they come into play. Local enchantments that phase in indirectly must always have later timestamps than the permanents they enchant, and if several enchantments phase in indirectly on the same permanent, their original relative timestamp order must be maintained. (See glossary, “Timestamp Order.”) This doesn’t change the fact that the permanents phase in simultaneously, however. For example, if two Legends with the same name phase in, they both go to their owners’ graveyards.

502.15m A permanent that phases in can attack and tap to play abilities as though it has haste. (This applies even if that permanent phased out and phased back in the turn it came into play.) The permanent remains able to attack and tap to play abilities until it changes controllers or leaves play.

502.15n A spell or ability that targets a permanent will resolve normally with respect to that permanent if the permanent phases out and back in before the spell or ability resolves.

502.15p Multiple instances of phasing on the same permanent are redundant.

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posted January 15, 2003 09:18 PM            

Color= Blue Type= Enchantment Cost= 3UU SH(R)
Text (SH+errata): Rather than paying the mana cost for a nonartifact spell, its controller may discard a card from his or her hand that shares a color with that spell. If the spell has X in its mana cost, X is 0.

Does this card affect both players? Or does it only affect the person who cast the Halls?

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posted January 15, 2003 09:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GoingPostal:
Dream Halls

Color= Blue Type= Enchantment Cost= 3UU SH(R)
Text (SH+errata): Rather than paying the mana cost for a nonartifact spell, its controller may discard a card from his or her hand that shares a color with that spell. If the spell has X in its mana cost, X is 0.

Does this card affect both players? Or does it only affect the person who cast the Halls?

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Both players.

posted January 15, 2003 09:27 PM         

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posted January 15, 2003 09:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TunaBoo:
Better?

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Thanks

posted January 16, 2003 06:02 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by TunaBoo:

Goes to the GY unless it is rancor, in which case it goes to your hand

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posted January 16, 2003 10:19 AM         

quote:

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Originally posted by trax72:
Nitpick: it still goes to the GY, and then to your hand.

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True, but it does return, despite what the delphi 2 test says (that confuses a lot of people).

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posted January 16, 2003 01:25 PM         

Also, if they provoke your wellwisher, could you tap to gain life before blockers are declared, so you don't have to block (same way you could tap to use an ability to get out of blocking a taunting elf).

I know it's a little early, but if provoke doesn't work on creatures with a tap ability, it will kinda ruin the ability.

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posted January 16, 2003 01:29 PM            

if i am at 1 live and my opponent is at 3 and he has a underworld dreams out..

when i draw, does the 1 damage go on the stack and then after i draw, i can respond to it wiht like a bolt and kill my opponent 1st? i would think i can, but i want to make sure

posted January 16, 2003 01:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TunaBoo:
When exactly is provoke declared? Before blockers I assume? So if they provoke your wellwisher you could also block with another creature to kill the attacker?

Also, if they provoke your wellwisher, could you tap to gain life before blockers are declared, so you don't have to block (same way you could tap to use an ability to get out of blocking a taunting elf).

I know it's a little early, but if provoke doesn't work on creatures with a tap ability, it will kinda ruin the ability.

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The way it is written seems to make it a triggered ability. If so, it would trigger and go on the stack during the Declare Attackers step after they've been declared. Once it resolves, the defending player would still be able to activate a Wellwisher before declaring blockers, thus making Provoke useless against creatures like that. I also see no reason why you couldn't double block a creature that used the Provoke ability.

That said, I'm just making an educated guess; I'm sure they'll explain it fully in the pre-release FAQ, which should be out soon.

quote:

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Originally posted by D'shay:
if i am at 1 live and my opponent is at 3 and he has a underworld dreams out..

when i draw, does the 1 damage go on the stack and then after i draw, i can respond to it wiht like a bolt and kill my opponent 1st? i would think i can, but i want to make sure

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Yes, you can do that.

posted January 16, 2003 02:08 PM         

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posted January 16, 2003 03:01 PM            

edit: Let me clarify. The ability, when it resolves, will untap the wellwisher/sparky, but that happens during declare attackers. Both players still have to pass priority before you can move to declare blockers, so there is always a window to use sparky/wellwisher.

posted January 16, 2003 03:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TunaBoo:
So provoke doesn't kill wellwisher, sparksmiths, tims, etc? That makes it much worse removal than I thought... ow.

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Yup, the way it is worded, Provoke can't touch creatures with a tap ability .