posted June 10, 2001 05:36 AM            

i play a pariah on one of my creatures, then my opponent plays a trecherous link on the same creature. and deals 1 damage to me or the creature.
will the game end in a draw cause its a cycle that niether of us can break?

pariah
enchant creature
redirect to enchanted creature all damage delt to you.

trecherous link
enchant creature
redirect to its controler all damage delt to enchanted creature

posted June 10, 2001 05:40 AM            

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posted June 10, 2001 06:44 AM            

T.10.8 - Each replacement effect gets only one opportunity to apply to each
event. For example, a player controls two copies of a permanent with the
ability "instead of dealing their normal damage, creatures you control
deal double that damage." A creature that normally deals 1 damage will
deal 4 damage, not just 2, and not an infinite amount.
[CompRules 99/04/23] For another example, if a creature has both
Pariah and Treacherous Link on it, then there is no loop. The
damage always ends up where it would have been if neither had been there.
[D'Angelo 00/01/02]

posted June 10, 2001 06:45 AM            

just awnserd in a hurry

i looked it up and your correct

srry

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posted June 10, 2001 04:16 PM            

and does this card effect artifacts?

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posted June 10, 2001 08:41 PM            

Story Circle
1WW, Enchantment, Mercadian Masques Uncommon
As Story Circle comes into play, choose a color.
W: The next time a source of your choice of the chosen color would deal damage to you this turn, prevent that damage.

posted June 10, 2001 08:46 PM            

If you cast Reality Ripple on a creature with out phasing, does that creature phase back in at the beginning of that players' upkeep, or does it remain phased out the entire game?

posted June 10, 2001 10:04 PM            

i have a cop: blue in play
and i play a card

and he counters it with a undermine

can i tap a land to activate the cop: blue to prevent the damage that would deal to me by the undermine

posted June 10, 2001 10:11 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laton:
If my opponent has a Story Circle in play(with red chosen as the color), and I disenchant it, can he pay W to activate the circle's damage prevention ability, even though there is not a source currently targeting him?

Story Circle
1WW, Enchantment, Mercadian Masques Uncommon
As Story Circle comes into play, choose a color.
W: The next time a source of your choice of the chosen color would deal damage to you this turn, prevent that damage.

Thanks.

---

He could target a red creature, even if that red creature is not dealing him damage yet (perhaps before combat.)

I'm not sure what happens if there is no red creatures in play though. He obviously cannot name a red source in such a situation. Can he activate the Circle anyway to dump the mana? I dunno.

posted June 10, 2001 10:11 PM         

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posted June 10, 2001 10:14 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by rpitcher:
He could target a red creature, even if that red creature is not dealing him damage yet (perhaps before combat.)

I'm not sure what happens if there is no red creatures in play though. He obviously cannot name a red source in such a situation. Can he activate the Circle anyway to dump the mana? I dunno.

---

rpitcher: He can activate the ability because it refers to the next damage that will be dealt. Which means that if the opponent casts a lightning bolt spell it will be prevented. It does NOT refer only to creatures. However, I think this no longer has affect once the turn is over. Also, he can not target a certain spell, creature, or enchantment, he can only target the NEXT damage of his choice in color.

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posted June 10, 2001 10:17 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by BaronSengir187:
If you cast Reality Ripple on a creature with out phasing, does that creature phase back in at the beginning of that players' upkeep, or does it remain phased out the entire game?

---

Yes it would phase back into play.

It's the rules for Phasing, and not the phasing ability, that causes phased permanents to return to play. So if a creature without the phasing ability becomes phased out, the rules return it to play later.

Otherwise Reality Ripple might have actually been a powerful card!

posted June 10, 2001 10:21 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by HanSolo6385:
[b]rpitcher: He can activate the ability because it refers to the next damage that will be dealt. Which means that if the opponent casts a lightning bolt spell it will be prevented. It does NOT refer only to creatures. However, I think this no longer has affect once the turn is over. Also, he can not target a certain spell, creature, or enchantment, he can only target the NEXT damage of his choice in color.

[/B]

---

That's right, but his question said there were no red spells currently targetting him.

posted June 10, 2001 10:28 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by tsabo's last supper:
ok here is my question

i have a cop: blue in play
and i play a card

and he counters it with a undermine

can i tap a land to activate the cop: blue to prevent the damage that would deal to me by the undermine

thanks
when u have the answer just email me

---

NO! Undermine causes you to lose life. It does not deal damage.

COP Blue does not prevent life loss. It can only prevent damage.

posted June 10, 2001 10:36 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by WeedIan:
Ummm, i have a question about shifting skys, does it change all permanents that are in play, and nothing else, and other permanents that come into play are the old color?

and does this card effect artifacts?

---

Yes, all non-land permanents. Shifting Sky is an enchantment with a continuous effect.

Yes artifacts too.

And permanents that come into play later too. (Like Crusade making your new creatures get bigger too.)

posted June 10, 2001 11:08 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gombies:
I have a question that i encountered in the JSS. I was playing my skies and my opponent was playing fires. He has out a kavu chameleon with mana to change its color and I had a washout in hand. A judge there told me that I could declare my washout first and then give him time to respond to it. He said after Washout resolves, I could always change to the color that kavu chameleon is and it is too late for him to change again. Let's say i declare i am playing washout, he changes to black in responce, Washout resolves and i say black. Could he still change its color to avoid being washed out?

---

So the judge is saying that Washout's color is chosen on resolution of the Washout rather than during annoucing the Washout?

That's not how I've been playing it, but that does seem consistant with the rules. Washout doesn't seem modal. (409.1b and 413.2c)

EDIT: Judge Juss clarifies this below.

posted June 10, 2001 11:19 PM            

I have a Mogg Maniac and a Repercussion in play. I cast Pariah on the Mogg Maniac, then tap my City of Brass for 1 mana.

a.) Will the damage I receive cause an endless loop? (Ouch from City of Brass -> Pariah -> Mogg Maniac -> Repercussion -> Pariah effect again...) Or will my Mogg Maniac die after receiving the first point of damage, thereby breaking the loop?

posted June 10, 2001 11:24 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gombies:
I have a question that i encountered in the JSS. I was playing my skies and my opponent was playing fires. He has out a kavu chameleon with mana to change its color and I had a washout in hand. A judge there told me that I could declare my washout first and then give him time to respond to it. He said after Washout resolves, I could always change to the color that kavu chameleon is and it is too late for him to change again. Let's say i declare i am playing washout, he changes to black in responce, Washout resolves and i say black. Could he still change its color to avoid being washed out?

---

Okay if I recall you have to annouce the color you are "washing out" and then after that is said, your opponent can change the Chameleon's color to prevent it from being taken back. Since Chameleon's ability is played as an instant, and wash out is sorcery, chameleon's ability can be played after Wash Out's color is designated.

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posted June 10, 2001 11:27 PM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by MJ9699:
Here's the scenario:

I have a Mogg Maniac and a Repercussion in play. I cast Pariah on the Mogg Maniac, then tap my City of Brass for 1 mana.

a.) Will the damage I receive cause an endless loop? (Ouch from City of Brass -> Pariah -> Mogg Maniac -> Repercussion -> Pariah effect again...) Or will my Mogg Maniac die after receiving the first point of damage, thereby breaking the loop?

b.) If my Mogg Maniac doesn't die, and the damage loop does occur, then my opponent loses the game, right? (Because he'll receive the same amount of damage my Mogg Maniac takes)

---

Technically yes, because the damage does go through that loop and will never be broken.

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posted June 10, 2001 11:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by HanSolo6385:
Technically yes, because the damage does go through that loop and will never be broken.

---

posted June 11, 2001 03:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by HanSolo6385:

Okay if I recall you have to annouce the color you are "washing out" and then after that is said, your opponent can change the Chameleon's color to prevent it from being taken back. Since Chameleon's ability is played as an instant, and wash out is sorcery, chameleon's ability can be played after Wash Out's color is designated.

---

Wrong. The Wash Out's color is chosen during resolution, _not_ announcement. The only things decided during announcing the spell or ability are:

a) Announce the spell or ability to be played and put it on the stack.
b) If the spell is a split spell (see Rule K.24), choose which half of
the spell will be played.
c) If the spell or ability is modal (see Rule G.24), choose the mode.
d) If the spell or ability has an {X} in the mana cost, the value for X
is chosen.
e) If the spell or ability has an alternate cost, choose whether or not
to use it.
f) If Buyback (see Rule A.9), Kicker (see Rule A.20) or other optional
cost is available, choose if it will be paid.
g) Targets (if any) are chosen. See Rule G.39.
h) If targets are affected differently, choose how each target is
affected. This includes dividing up counters and damage.
i) Pay all costs. See Rule G.6. Costs are determined at the start of
this step and will not be changed by any actions taken to pay those
costs.

And that's about it. Similar is the case with Mother of Runes, for example. The color is decided during resolution.

No ifs and buts, please.

posted June 11, 2001 03:39 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by MJ9699:
Here's the scenario:

I have a Mogg Maniac and a Repercussion in play. I cast Pariah on the Mogg Maniac, then tap my City of Brass for 1 mana.

a.) Will the damage I receive cause an endless loop? (Ouch from City of Brass -> Pariah -> Mogg Maniac -> Repercussion -> Pariah effect again...) Or will my Mogg Maniac die after receiving the first point of damage, thereby breaking the loop?

b.) If my Mogg Maniac doesn't die, and the damage loop does occur, then my opponent loses the game, right? (Because he'll receive the same amount of damage my Mogg Maniac takes) :confused:

---

Here's how I see it:

When you would take the damage from the CoB, the Pariah's replacement effect redirects the damage to the Mogg. That triggers Repercussions, which does not replace the damage, but deals a new point of damage to you. So the Mogg does suffer the damage. Pariah triggers again, and goes on the stack. The new Pariah ability will not resolve until after state based effects are checked, and when they are checked, the Mogg will be destroyed.

posted June 11, 2001 03:51 AM         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Juss:
Wrong. The Wash Out's color is chosen during resolution, _not_ announcement.
No ifs and buts, please.

Juhan Kaldre
Level 1 DCI judge

---

Good job :o)
I think the confusion comes about due to how similar this seems to a modal spell. It's important to recognize the difference between "Choose one" and having a choice. I think it would have been cleaner for the rules to have choices work the same.

posted June 11, 2001 04:17 AM            

although a judge correcting another and so on isnt very good is it

anyway correct awnsers:

Gombies - You play washout
he / she can react
you choose color
he / she can react again

WeedIan Artifact are permanents aren't they? oh and yes it's a continuous effect

Laton - He cant target a source not there so nop

BaronSengir187 - Naturly cuz all creatures fade in at the beginning of your upkeep

tsabo's last supper - Loose 3 life huh
that's not damage so you cant prevent that, one of the ways to kill ppl with Worship in play

okay that's it for today

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