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Author	Topic: Need a Ruling?.. Come on in!.. #9-Questions go here
trax72 Member	posted March 15, 2002 03:23 AM D.10.1 - If you "forget" to pay upkeep before drawing your card or otherwise proceeding, you must go back and deal with all mandatory abilities and effects, but optional ones are all considered to go unpaid (with the stated results). [Tournament Rules 1997/10/01] So IMO it should be sacced
Tahngarth666 Member	posted March 17, 2002 06:20 AM My opponent has a Shivan Phoenix (When Shivan Phoenix is put into a graveyard from play, return Shivan Phoenix to owner's hand) and I enchant it with Shade's Form (When enchanted creature is put into a graveyard, return that creature to play under your control). Now what happens when the Phoenix dies?? I'd like to know it as fast as possible - we are playing right now __________________ Don't mourn for me. This is my destiny. [Edited 2 times, lastly by Tahngarth666 on March 17, 2002]
gzeiger Member	posted March 17, 2002 08:18 AM It depends whose turn it is. Both Shivan Phoenix and Shade's Form have triggered abilities which use the stack. When two triggers happen at the same time, the active player (whose turn it is) first puts all triggers that player controls on the stack (in the order of their choice), then the other player adds any triggers he or she controls. Because the inactive player chooses second, those effects will resolve first. The short answer: if the player whose turn it is right now is the controller of Shivan Phoenix, it will be returned to play by SHade's Form. If the Phoenix dies on the other guy's turn, it will be returned to its owner's hand by its own ability before Shade's Form finds it. The discussion earlier on this post is somewhat relevant - a triggered ability will not find a card if it has changed zones between the trigger and the resolution of the ability; hence if Shade's Form does its thing, the Phoenix's own ability fails to do anything because the Phoenix is no longer in play. __________________ DCI certified Level 1 judge gzeiger@hotmail.com
-Vhati-il-dal- Member	posted March 17, 2002 12:16 PM trax: The Scavenger's upkeep is not optional.
Ncromonitor Member	posted March 17, 2002 11:23 PM I've always been under the impression that you lose instantly when your life total is 0 or less. I was at a tournament yesterday where this didn't work. My opponent was at 5, and death grasped me for 7. I diverted it back to him, and I thought he would die to that because Death Grasp says that it deals the damage before it gains you the life. He calls a judge, and the judge says he survives and is still at 5 life. Was this right? I hear again and again that you lose instantly when you hit 0 life, and I know that if you're at 6 life and attacked by a spiritmonger with spirit link on it, (your spirit link) you still lose. Why is this different?
da-odd-templar Member	posted March 18, 2002 12:01 AM The grasp's damage/lifegain all happens during the resolution of the grasp, and we all know you don't check your state-based effects until a player gets priority. You don't get priority until the grasp fully resolves. So the damage/life-gain all happens before you check if somebody died. The spirit link works differently though. The link's lifegain triggers on damage resolving, so when combat damage resolves, you check state based effects before you put the trigger on the stack, and you find the opponent is dead (if it would be lethal damage). (A player losing if he has 0 or less life is a state based effect). I'm writing this at 2am. Thus if there are errors, not my fault, it's the sleep fairy. =P __________________ Stinky cheese is still cheese. Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died. - Stephen Wright Rice Cube - The next Azn Sensation!
trax72 Member	posted March 18, 2002 02:24 AM -Vhati-il-dal-: Please, study the rules better before you post wrong answers/comments... Anurid Scavenger uses 'unless' which implies 'may' thus it's optional. E.11.Ruling.3 - The template "Do A unless you do B" means the same thing as saying "You may do B. If you don't, do A." In other words, you choose whether or not to do B. If you don't do B (or can't do B), then you must do A. If you can't do A, you are not forced to do B. [CompRules 1999/11/01]
-Vhati-il-dal- Member	posted March 18, 2002 01:58 PM trax: Sorry, I guess I misunderstood the rules, they do not _clearly_ state that "unless" implies that an ability is optional.
Dave the Ultimate unregistered	posted March 18, 2002 04:43 PM Can my opponent play death grasp on say a creature with 1 toughness and pay ten mana to gain 8 life?
HanSolo6385 Member	posted March 18, 2002 05:13 PM Dave: Yes he can. The amount of damage that can be dealt is not restricted by the toughness of a creature. __________________ Snow King, Ruler of all Penguins! AIM Handle:SURFNSKI4REAL King Woopywoopy of the Penguin Clan The more you know, the more you know you don't know. - Socrates Sign your toploaders!! Orders from the Overlord of Squirrels himself!
Wiggum13 unregistered	posted March 18, 2002 05:39 PM do tokens have summoning sickness? __________________ TIM
Russ Member	posted March 18, 2002 05:45 PM quote: Originally posted by Wiggum13: do tokens have summoning sickness? Yup Yup. They count as normal creatures. __________________ MOTLMerchnat@hotmail.com
Ncromonitor Member	posted March 19, 2002 02:47 AM If I Flaming Gambit my opponent for 5, can he assign the damage to a Goblin Legionairre and then throw the legionairre at me?
trax72 Member	posted March 19, 2002 08:57 AM No, the choice of taking the damage or assigning it to a creature is done during resolution of Flaming Gambit so your opponent can't use any abilities yet.
Dave the Ultimate unregistered	posted March 19, 2002 01:50 PM Can abilities of creaures be played as instants or sorceries? If instant, then what happens when I have a fireslinger out and my opponent plays a fireslinger and we both yell that we will tap our fireslinger to kill the other's fireslinger at the same time?
da-odd-templar Member	posted March 19, 2002 02:25 PM quote: Originally posted by Dave the Ultimate: Can abilities of creaures be played as instants or sorceries? If instant, then what happens when I have a fireslinger out and my opponent plays a fireslinger and we both yell that we will tap our fireslinger to kill the other's fireslinger at the same time? If he just played his, ping it with your slinger while his slinger still has summoning sickness! If somehow two active slingers are on the board, it will probably go something like this. One slinger pings the other, then in response that slinger pings the other. End result: 2 dead slingers. To your original question, all creature abilities are played at instant speed unless the card says otherwise. __________________ Stinky cheese is still cheese. Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died. - Stephen Wright Rice Cube - The next Azn Sensation!
Datastorm New Member	posted March 19, 2002 05:02 PM When a creature with an enchantment on it is returned to your hand, does the enchantment follow it, or is it put in the graveyard? And what about if the creature is removed from the game?
HanSolo6385 Member	posted March 19, 2002 05:18 PM quote: Originally posted by Datastorm: When a creature with an enchantment on it is returned to your hand, does the enchantment follow it, or is it put in the graveyard? And what about if the creature is removed from the game? The enchantments on a card are completely separate from the card it enchants. If a creature is removed from play (library, hand, graveyard, rfg pile, etc.) unless an enchantment states it is returned to the hand when placed in your graveyard from play (i.e. Rancor), then it stays in your graveyard. When a creature is buried from in play, any additional cards "on" that creature such as enchantments are buried as well and sent to the graveyard. If a creature is removed from game, the enchantments do not follow, they are simply buried. __________________ Snow King, Ruler of all Penguins! AIM Handle:SURFNSKI4REAL King Woopywoopy of the Penguin Clan The more you know, the more you know you don't know. - Socrates Sign your toploaders!! Orders from the Overlord of Squirrels himself!
Furious Fish Member	posted March 20, 2002 01:35 AM noob question (sorry if tis been asked before but ic oudlnt find the answer): how does sacrificing work? if my opponent plays a chainer's edict & i have a ashnod's altar can i combine the sacs and get the mana? what about when a creature is destroyed normally, can i declare that my sacrifice?
Kavuman New Member	posted March 20, 2002 02:43 AM hi, i was playing a match with my friend. He attacked with 3/3 creature, cant remember the name with no special abilities . I block with my dega disciple, then pay the mana to tap for the ability to let the disciple gets +2/+0. My friend claim tat under a new rule, his creature still won't die despite my creature being 3/1 now, is this true? Is there such a rule, thanks!!!
Kavuman New Member	posted March 20, 2002 02:46 AM hi, i was playing a match with my friend. He attacked with 3/3 creature, cant remember the name with no special abilities . I block with my dega disciple, then pay the mana to tap for the ability to let the disciple gets +2/+0. My friend claim tat under a new rule, his creature still won't die despite my creature being 3/1 now, is this true? Is there such a rule, thanks!!!
Shane Member	posted March 20, 2002 02:46 AM quote: Originally posted by Furious Fish: noob question (sorry if tis been asked before but ic oudlnt find the answer): how does sacrificing work? if my opponent plays a chainer's edict & i have a ashnod's altar can i combine the sacs and get the mana? what about when a creature is destroyed normally, can i declare that my sacrifice? not as far as i know. that would be like tapping land for mana and a special ability at once. __________________ With a lack of death by disease these days, we are actually ensuring survuval of weak genes, and becoming a genetically weaker race. E-MAIL: moll_sd@hotmail.com MSN: Shane
Kavuman New Member	posted March 20, 2002 02:50 AM i was playing a match with my friend, he attacks with a 3/3 creature. I BLOCK with my dega disciple, then i pay 1 red mana and tap the disciple to give it +2/+0, making it a 3/1, but my friend says his creature wont die becoz the 1 damage is dealt already and even if the disciple gets +2/+0, its pointless and he says its a new rule, is it true?
elambert24 Member	posted March 20, 2002 05:35 AM Furious Fish: You can only satisfy ONE sacrifice cost per creature. That is you cannot sac it simultaneously, satisfying mutliple costs. HOWEVER, if you only have 1 creature in play, then in response to the Edict you could sacrifice your only creature to the Altar for mana and then not have to sacrifice any other creature on Edicts resolution since you have no other creatures. If you do have more than one though and try the same thing, you will only have one when Edict resolves and thus have to sacrifice it. Kavu: Your friend is WRONG. Under old rules (Back in the day ) a tapped creature did not deal damage, but under current rules they do, so your 3/1 Disciple will destroy their 3/3, barring some other effects. Hope this helps __________________ Check out my auctions [Edited 3 times, lastly by elambert24 on March 20, 2002]
Dave the Ultimate unregistered	posted March 20, 2002 01:07 PM In response to Templer: When a creature comes into play with summoning sickness, they are not tapped right? And as long as a creature is not tapped it can play its abilities, right? I think one of those must be wrong if fireslinger cannot play it's ability when it has summoning sickness. So which one is wrong?

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