posted March 28, 2002 11:31 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by gzeiger:
The targeted creature will remain in play under your control. Unless a card says otherwise, an activated ability, once played, is independent of the permanent that created the ability. The Matriarch's ability lasts until its duration is up - when there are no enchantments on the creature.

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So if the enchantment is then destroyed in soe way, then the creature goes back to the player who originaly had it?

posted March 28, 2002 01:00 PM            

1)Can you divert a duress because from what im seeing it says target opponent and my opponent, the player casting duress has no other opponet to target. LMK if i am right.

2)I am at 1. I cast spirit link on thier Llanowar elf and they attack me, do i die? LMK

Thanks.

posted March 28, 2002 01:48 PM            

Spirit Link's ability is triggered - it uses the stack. If the enchanted creature deals you lethal damage, you will die and lose the game before the triggered ability resolves.

posted March 28, 2002 11:13 PM            

#1 My opponent attacks me with a basking rootwalla and a shivan dragon, I declare no blockers. Then my opponent pumps up his dragon and giant growths the rootwalla. Can I in response fog? What are the steps needed to go through within a full attack phase?

#2 My opponent taps his prodigal sorcerer to deal me one point of damage, in responce I bolt it. What happens? Do I still take the damage?

Thanks

T-Bone

posted March 28, 2002 11:21 PM            

How does "Sacrifice" work with reference to the stack. Say I sac a pernicious deed; can my opponent respond to the that by disenchanting it? So that the pernicious deed will not take effect.

posted March 28, 2002 11:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Bone:
Hi, I have a couple questions;

#1 My opponent attacks me with a basking rootwalla and a shivan dragon, I declare no blockers. Then my opponent pumps up his dragon and giant growths the rootwalla. Can I in response fog? What are the steps needed to go through within a full attack phase?

#2 My opponent taps his prodigal sorcerer to deal me one point of damage, in responce I bolt it. What happens? Do I still take the damage?

Thanks

T-Bone

---

1.) Yes, you can fog. Whenever your opponent uses an ability like the pump or a spell like giant growth, he must complete his thing then pass you priority. So he could do this... He pumps dragon all the way, he passes priority. You pass back (dragon's pump resolves). He pumps rooty, he passes, you FOG. He frowns. For more info about the attack phase and stuff, check out the Comprehensive Rules here ---> http://www.crystalkeep.com/magic/rules/sixth/magic-rules-022002.txt

2.) Short story: Tim dies, then you take 1 from his ability. Long story: He taps Tim to deal 1 damage to you; this actually puts a pseudospell on the stack that says "Deal 1 damage to target player (you)". You put the bolt on top of the stack, killing Tim. Bolt resolves, then the pseudospell resolves, dealing 1 damage to you.

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posted March 28, 2002 11:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by crichey:
Quick question:

How does "Sacrifice" work with reference to the stack. Say I sac a pernicious deed; can my opponent respond to the that by disenchanting it? So that the pernicious deed will not take effect.

Thanks.

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Because the deed's sacrifice thingy is before the : (colon) on the card, that means it's a cost of using the ability, and thus does not use the stack. By the time your opponent gets a chance to play the disenchant, the deed's already gone.

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posted March 29, 2002 07:26 AM            

410.10d Abilities that trigger on one or more permanents leaving play, or on a player losing control of a permanent, must be treated specially because the permanent with the ability may no longer be in play after the event. The game has to “look back in time” to determine what triggered. Each time an event removes from play or changes who controls one or more permanents, all the permanents in play just before the event (with continuous effects that existed at that time) are checked for trigger events that match what just left play or changed control.

posted March 29, 2002 09:21 AM         

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posted March 29, 2002 02:10 PM         

quote:

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Originally posted by gzeiger:
Unfortunately that's the wrong answer, Han, because of the rule he posted. You can deed for up to 4867 (more than that and they're allowed to just look at you funny) - everything, including Compost, goes to the graveyard simultaneously, and Compost triggers on each black card put into the graveyard at that time.

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Okay, now I need clarification here. I don't understand that rule he posted 100%, so please explain how a card can have a triggered ability actually trigger if it enters the graveyard simultaneously with the cards that would trigger it's ability.

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posted March 29, 2002 02:13 PM            

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posted March 29, 2002 04:48 PM            

Han, the rule he posted deals with situations where a permanent that has a zone-change triggered ability changes zones. In this case, Compost is going to the graveyard. The rules need to make an arbitrary decision about whether or not such cards trigger when they themselves leave play, and the rule is, arbitrarily, that they do. If the whole world blows up and Compost dies, it will still trigger on any black cards that go to a graveyard at the same time. If you bounce a Warped Devotion, its controller will have to discard. Stuff like that.

When any permanents leave play, they check for triggered abilities from any permanent that was in play immediately before that. I think that's the clearest summary I can make.

posted March 30, 2002 12:33 AM            

My opponent attacks me with a River boa which has a rancor spell on it.

4/1 trample

and I block with my white Knight.

Since my white night has first strike, it destroys the boa.

My opponent regenerates Boa and it is tapped, and removed from combat, so it deals no damage, right?

posted March 30, 2002 02:55 AM            

NOTE: Messing with you all level 1 judges

posted March 30, 2002 08:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by El Wry:
Hi
I think im right about this but I just want to make sure.

My opponent attacks me with a River boa which has a rancor spell on it.

4/1 trample

and I block with my white Knight.

Since my white night has first strike, it destroys the boa.

My opponent regenerates Boa and it is tapped, and removed from combat, so it deals no damage, right?

My friend thinks it still deals damage.

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You are correct, the boa deals no combat damage, since regenerating him removes him from combat.

Speaking of which, this is off the subject, but a very cool play I witnessed involving this ruling.....Player A has Laquattus' Champion in play, he attacks. Player B's only card is a Second Thoughts which he casts targeting the Champ. Player A, in response, plays Fiery Temper on the Champ and sets up a regen shield. The Temper resolved, Champ regenerated and was removed from combat, then the Second Thoughts fails because of no legal targets, and Player A goes on to adminster savage beatings.

posted March 30, 2002 11:06 AM            

Opalescence Humility: In order to resolve the situation, the Replenish player is required to assign the enchantments a timestamp order. Normally that's the order they came into play, but in this case you're allowed to choose because they really enter play at the same time. Then their effects are applied in the timestamp order so as to resolve contradictions where, for example, Humility could be a creature because of an ability Opalescence doesn't have.

There are three possible orders you can assign them, and they produce different results:

Opal/Opal/Humility
Opalescence is applied, and makes one Opalescence and a Humility 4/4 creatures. The second Opal is applied, and all enchantments are 4/4 creatures. Humility applies, and all creatures including these 3 enchantments are 1/1s with no abilities.
Result: 3 1/1s.

Opal/Humility/Opal
Opalescence makes Humility and the other Opal into 4/4 creatures. Humility applies and makes itself and the second Opal into 1/1s with no abilities. Then it'd be time for the second Opal, but it has no abilities.
Result: 2 1/1s and an Opalescence that's not a creature.

Humility/Opal/Opal
Humility applies, and all creatures get small. Opal applies, and Humility and the other Opal are 4/4. A second Opal applies and all three enchantments are 4/4.
Result: 3 4/4 creatures which retain their abilities.

posted March 30, 2002 12:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by gzeiger:
That Champion thing is simply wonderful

Opalescence Humility: In order to resolve the situation, the Replenish player is required to assign the enchantments a timestamp order. Normally that's the order they came into play, but in this case you're allowed to choose because they really enter play at the same time. Then their effects are applied in the timestamp order so as to resolve contradictions where, for example, Humility could be a creature because of an ability Opalescence doesn't have.

There are three possible orders you can assign them, and they produce different results:

[b]Opal/Opal/Humility
Opalescence is applied, and makes one Opalescence and a Humility 4/4 creatures. The second Opal is applied, and all enchantments are 4/4 creatures. Humility applies, and all creatures including these 3 enchantments are 1/1s with no abilities.
Result: 3 1/1s.

Opal/Humility/Opal
Opalescence makes Humility and the other Opal into 4/4 creatures. Humility applies and makes itself and the second Opal into 1/1s with no abilities. Then it'd be time for the second Opal, but it has no abilities.
Result: 2 1/1s and an Opalescence that's not a creature.

Humility/Opal/Opal
Humility applies, and all creatures get small. Opal applies, and Humility and the other Opal are 4/4. A second Opal applies and all three enchantments are 4/4.
Result: 3 4/4 creatures which retain their abilities.

[/B]

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posted March 30, 2002 02:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Titan33:
can i use the ability on "compulsion" even if i dont have a card in my hand to discard?

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Afraid not....it's part of the activation, which without cards you cannot satisfy.

posted March 30, 2002 05:47 PM            

Here are the relevant rules. I think that Opalescence and Humility form a dependent loop as in 418.5c because Opalescence and Humility both affect the way that the other is applied.

418.5. Interaction of Continuous Effects

418.5a Sometimes the results of one effect determine whether another effect applies or what it
does. For example, one effect might read, "All white creatures get +1/+1" and another,
"Enchanted creature is white."

418.5b An effect is said to "depend on" another if applying the other would change the text or
the existence of the first effect, what it applies to, or what it does to any of the things it
applies to. Otherwise, the effect is considered to be independent of the first effect.

418.5c Whenever one effect depends on another, the independent one is applied first. If several
dependent effects form a loop, or if none depends on another, they're applied in
"timestamp order." A permanent's timestamp is the time it came into play, with two
exceptions: (1) If two or more permanents enter play simultaneously, the active player
determines their timestamp order at the time they come into play, but a local enchantment
must be timestamped after what it enchants; (2) Whenever a local enchantment becomes
attached to a permanent, the enchantment receives a new timestamp. Continuous effects
generated by static abilities have the same timestamp as the permanent that generated
them. Continuous effects generated by the resolution of a spell or ability receive a
timestamp when the spell or ability creating them resolves.

posted March 30, 2002 05:56 PM            

* If one Opalescence and Humility are in play, then
Opalescense turns Humility into a 4/4 creature, then Humility
turns itself into a 1/1 creature with no abilities. Yes, this is
counter-intuitive since Humility no longer has the ability to
remove abilities, but this is the outcome. The timing rules for
the interaction of continuous effects say you apply them in
this order and you never loop back to see if that application
would change things. [D'Angelo 1999/05/01] See Rule T.8.9
and Rule T.8.10. If new creatures or enchantments come into
play, you apply Opalescense and Humility in order, so they
come into play as 1/1 with no abilities. [D'Angelo 1999/07/27]

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