Author
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Topic: Need a Ruling?.. Come on in!.. #9-Questions go here
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Ncromonitor Member
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posted February 27, 2002 10:52 PM
- Why is it possible for a Morphling to block and kill a Serra Angel with Crusade out and live, yet the same Morphling can never kill a Longbow Archer with Crusade out? I know this works, I saw it at a tournament, but I don't see how Morphling can kill a 5/5 and survive, yet be unable to kill a 3/3. - If a Spectral Lynx blocks a Longbow Archer and is regenerated, does the Archer die? - Does Equinox counter spells like Jokulhaups, Armageddon, Balance, Cataclysm, etc.?
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elambert24 Member
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posted February 28, 2002 07:08 AM
quote: Originally posted by Ncromonitor: - Why is it possible for a Morphling to block and kill a Serra Angel with Crusade out and live, yet the same Morphling can never kill a Longbow Archer with Crusade out? I know this works, I saw it at a tournament, but I don't see how Morphling can kill a 5/5 and survive, yet be unable to kill a 3/3. - If a Spectral Lynx blocks a Longbow Archer and is regenerated, does the Archer die? - Does Equinox counter spells like Jokulhaups, Armageddon, Balance, Cataclysm, etc.?
Because the Archer is first strike, which means his damage resolves FIRST. He will always do his 3 point first. While the Morphling can block and get a -1/+1 to live, he would only do 2 points to the Archer, once non-first strike damage resolves.
No the Archer does not die. The Lynx blocks, first strike damage on stack, regenerate lynx, damage resolves and the Lynx is regenerated and removed from combat at that point, never to do his 2 points to the Archer I don't play T1 so I can't really answer the last question, but I would have to say yes. Hope this helps.
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elambert24 Member
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posted February 28, 2002 07:59 AM
Here's a question that has me somewhat perplexed as I can see it both ways. Anyhow, Does Compost trigger on a Black Token card hitting the graveyard, such as a Zombie token or Penumbra token?Compost reads: "Whenever a black card is put into your opponents graveyard, you may draw a card" Initially I would have said it wouldn't trigger, since Compost specifically states CARD, however I found this ruling: Triggers on a black card being discarded, milled, or countered, as well as a black permanent going to the graveyard from play. [D'Angelo 1999/06/01] That ruling says PERMANENT. Since tokens are obviously permanents, and trigger other graveyard effects upon their hitting the graveyard, it seems via this ruling it would. Thanks in advance.
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Maxaramus Member
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posted February 28, 2002 10:15 AM
I don't think tokens go into the graveyard. I believe they are just removed from the game, so it wouldn't trigger.someone correct me if I'm wrong, I've always been a little fuzzy about this issue. __________________ Don't eat cigarettes Smoke all your greens Don't do school Stay in drugsI need work! -Mr. T
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*Tedman* Member
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posted February 28, 2002 10:16 AM
Tokens do go to the graveyard, but are immediately removed from the game. I don't know if it triggers Compost, but they do hit the graveyard.__________________ MOTL Moderator for:Deck Help/Construction Articles Magic Discussion General Discussion
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trax72 Member
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posted February 28, 2002 10:43 AM
K.25.6 - Token creatures cease to exist entirely if they ever leave play (to the hand, graveyard, removed from game, phased out, or wherever). Before ceasing to exist, the token will trigger any zone changing abilities that apply. [CompRules 1999/04/23] It is removed as a state-based effect (see Rule T.11), so it is not possible to target the token with a spell or ability before it is gone. So yes, it will trigger Compost.
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trax72 Member
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posted February 28, 2002 11:25 AM
Ncromonitor: Equinox can counter Jokulhaups and Armageddon, but can't counter Balance or Cataclysm because those say that the lands are sacrificed, not destroyed. Unfortunately, the rulings on Equinox are out of date so they say otherwise. :/
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gzeiger Member
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posted February 28, 2002 11:35 AM
I don't think that's right about Compost, Trax. Comp Rules glossary: Card This is specifically a Magic card, and is always considered a card regardless of which zone it's in. Tokens aren't cards. See section 2, "Cards."The ruling that says "permanent" is just sloppy wording; it doesn't change the rule. D'Angelo just wasn't thinking about a token, since most permanents are cards. I don't think those rulings on Crystal Keep about Lightning Bolt and such are correct either. A damage source targeting an animated land doesn't destroy it; it will be destroyed later by a game rule, so Equinox can't stop it. Am I right? __________________ DCI certified Level 1 judge gzeiger@hotmail.com
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trax72 Member
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posted February 28, 2002 11:43 AM
Good point, I'm getting too lazy (properly checking the wording). You're right, it wouldn't trigger on tokens hitting the graveyard since they're not cards. And that does mean that that particular ruling isn't entirely correct.And yes, the Lightning Bolt ruling is no longer correct either.
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Mr. Ruboonia Member
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posted February 28, 2002 05:51 PM
I attack with Psychatog. He takes damage. I pump up Psychatog to whatever it takes to kill him. He plays repulse. What happens? Does the Psycho still deal damage? Or does it go to my hand without dealing damage. I was told that I could pump my Psycho after he takes damage and kill him without having to worry about a bounce effect... Help! __________________ "They can't feel pain. They just wiggle 'cause they're scared" -Seahunter AIM Handle-KirdApe5 #1 Poster in Wisconsin:) Yo I am cool Dude Man. ==JSS Championship Qualifier==
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gzeiger Member
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posted February 28, 2002 06:23 PM
You were most certainly told incorrectly. The combat phase is divided into steps like other phases. What's happening is: 1. You declare Psychatog as an attacker. 2. He decides not to block. 3. Both players have an opportunity to play spells or abilities at this point. If you pass (if you ask "damage on the stack?" or something to that effect) then he has the option to pass and damage will go on the stack. Once damage is on the stack, the amount is locked in. He will take damage equal to Psychatog's power at the time damage was assigned. Pumping it afterward has no effect.Anytime you pump the guy to make it deal more damage, he always has a chance to remove it from combat with an effect like Repulse to avoid that damage. __________________ DCI certified Level 1 judge gzeiger@hotmail.com
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da-odd-templar Member
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posted March 01, 2002 01:12 PM
Hey I need this ruling very soon (within 30 minutes). If I have Compulsion out, and I have Arrogant Wurm in hand, and my opponent plays a key spell that I want to counter if I can, can I cycle the wurm, hope to draw a counter, and if I don't, play the wurm's madness as a consolation prize? Ie: when do you choose to pay or not to pay Madness costs when you use Compulsion. Compulsion
Color= Blue Type= Enchantment Cost= 1U TO(U) Text (TO): {1}{U},Discard a card from your hand: Draw a card. ; {1}{U},Sacrifice ~this~: Draw a card.
__________________ Stinky cheese is still cheese.Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died. - Stephen Wright Rice Cube - The next Azn Sensation!
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*Tedman* Member
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posted March 01, 2002 01:51 PM
quote: Originally posted by da-odd-templar: Hey I need this ruling very soon (within 30 minutes). If I have Compulsion out, and I have Arrogant Wurm in hand, and my opponent plays a key spell that I want to counter if I can, can I cycle the wurm, hope to draw a counter, and if I don't, play the wurm's madness as a consolation prize? Ie: when do you choose to pay or not to pay Madness costs when you use Compulsion.
Yes, that works. The key spell goes on the stack, in response you discard the Wurm to Compulsion and drawing a card goes on the stack. Then you can play the Wurm's madness cost to put it into play (also putting it on the stack first). LIFO; Wurm either gets countered or is put into play. You then draw a card. If it's a counter, you can counter the original spell on the bottom of the stack. __________________ MOTL Moderator for:Deck Help/Construction Articles Magic Discussion General Discussion
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creepyalex Member
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posted March 01, 2002 05:37 PM
if i attack with a 1/1 with first strike and its blocked my a 1/1 that regenrates does the first striker die?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by creepyalex on March 03, 2002]
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the phoenix Member
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posted March 01, 2002 05:49 PM
If I have a few lands in play, Sol Ring, Goblin Welder, and Covetous Dragon, and then I exchange the Sol Ring for another artifact from my graveyard (with the Welder) the Covetous Dragon doesn't die during the process, right? Thanks for the help!
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HanSolo6385 Member
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posted March 01, 2002 06:26 PM
quote: Originally posted by the phoenix: If I have a few lands in play, Sol Ring, Goblin Welder, and Covetous Dragon, and then I exchange the Sol Ring for another artifact from my graveyard (with the Welder) the Covetous Dragon doesn't die during the process, right? Thanks for the help!
Yes, the Covetous lives. The key word in Goblin Welder's text says "simultaneously", which means there is no space in time between the switched artifact being put into play, and the other artifact sacrificed; this allows Covetous to stay in play. quote: Originally posted by creepyalex: if i attack with a 1/1 with first strike and its blocked my a 1/1 that regenrates does the first striker die?
No. First Strike keeps your creature from dying automatically. Regeneration just means that the creature that was killed is kept in play but removed from combat and tapped. Regeneration of another creature has nothing to do with your creature if it already survived combat.
__________________ HÅñ§¤£¤6⅜5 Snow King, Ruler of all Penguins!AIM Handle:SURFNSKI4REAL King Woopywoopy of the Penguin Clan The more you know, the more you know you don't know. - Socrates
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creepyalex Member
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posted March 01, 2002 07:20 PM
lets say i have an either burst in my graveyard and one in my hand. if i try to bounce to creates but my oponent kills one of them as a fast affect does the whole spell fizzle?
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HanSolo6385 Member
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posted March 01, 2002 07:35 PM
quote: Originally posted by creepyalex: lets say i have an either burst in my graveyard and one in my hand. if i try to bounce to creates but my oponent kills one of them as a fast affect does the whole spell fizzle?
No. Aether Burst reads "Up to X target creatures" which means the number can fluctuate as long as there is at least one. Here's the exact ruling: 413.2a If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that's removed from play, or from the zone designated by the spell or ability, is illegal. A target may also become illegal if its characteristics changed since the spell or ability was played or if an effect changed the wording of the spell or ability. If all targets are now illegal, the spell or ability is countered. If the spell or ability is not countered it will resolve normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If the spell or ability needs to know information about one or more targets that are now illegal, it will use the illegal targets' current or last known information. __________________ HÅñ§¤£¤6⅜5 Snow King, Ruler of all Penguins!AIM Handle:SURFNSKI4REAL King Woopywoopy of the Penguin Clan The more you know, the more you know you don't know. - Socrates
[Edited 2 times, lastly by HanSolo6385 on March 01, 2002]
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gzeiger Member
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posted March 01, 2002 11:47 PM
The wording "up to" isn't actually relevant - any spell with multiple targets resolves successfully as long as at least one of the targets remains.Clarifying Tedman's previous post (I think you misunderstood the question), you must choose whether to pay the Wurm's madness cost before you see what you drew from Compulsion. If you only have enough mana to counter OR play the Wurm, you'll have to take a risk one way or the other.
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HanSolo6385 Member
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posted March 02, 2002 10:22 AM
quote: Originally posted by gzeiger: The wording "up to" isn't actually relevant - any spell with multiple targets resolves successfully as long as at least one of the targets remains.
Hmmm...well I always thought of that as a way to explain multiple targets, as long as one is legal. Any amount can be removed as long as there is 1. But I see your point. __________________ HÅñ§¤£¤6⅜5 Snow King, Ruler of all Penguins!AIM Handle:SURFNSKI4REAL King Woopywoopy of the Penguin Clan The more you know, the more you know you don't know. - Socrates Sign your toploaders!! Orders from the Overlord of Squirrels himself!
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Titan33 Member
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posted March 02, 2002 10:46 AM
if i have 2xmegrim in play do my duresses hit for 4 damage and urza's guilt hit for 16. please clarify.
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HanSolo6385 Member
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posted March 02, 2002 11:23 AM
quote: Originally posted by Titan33: if i have 2xmegrim in play do my duresses hit for 4 damage and urza's guilt hit for 16. please clarify.
Yes. 404.2. Triggered abilities aren't played. Instead, a triggered ability automatically "triggers" each time its trigger event occurs. Once an ability has triggered, it goes on the stack the next time a player would receive priority. This means each Megrim has it's own triggered effect. Each time a card is discarded from your opponent's hand, the triggered ability on each Megrim will go off. Thus adding to the stack, and when the abilities resolve, each Megrim will deal 2 damage to your opponent. Urza's Guilt will deal 12 damage to your opponent, and then he loses 4 life, so he will take 16 life altogether. Your correct. __________________ HÅñ§¤£¤6⅜5 Snow King, Ruler of all Penguins!AIM Handle:SURFNSKI4REAL King Woopywoopy of the Penguin Clan The more you know, the more you know you don't know. - Socrates Sign your toploaders!! Orders from the Overlord of Squirrels himself!
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creepyalex Member
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posted March 02, 2002 02:09 PM
lets say i play a faceless butcher and romove a creature but befor the ability resolves i bounce i back to my hand does the removed creature stay removed???
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mAc DrE Member
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posted March 02, 2002 02:18 PM
Heres a really stupid question.. my opponent is at 1 life and so am I.I tap my city of brass to play a shock on my opponent but he taps his city of brass and an island to play counterspell. we both die? Is that possible to have both players die? or do i lose since I tapped mine first. I dont know please help. Thanks alot.
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HanSolo6385 Member
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posted March 02, 2002 02:39 PM
creepyalex: You have to allow the proper resolution to occur. If Faceless Butcher resolves, target your creature. In response to targeting your creature, you bounce it back to your hand, Faceless Butcher's ability fizzles, but not the Butcher, so it stays in play. Therefore, the creature you bounced is not removed, but due to the spell you casted it is returned your hand.*EDIT*-It has come to my attention that there could be a different question your asking then what I interpreted it as. Here's the other scenario: You cast Faceless Butcher from hand and it resolves. Upon resolution you target a creature for removal, and then bounce your Faceless Butcher back to your hand. Since you targeted the creature, if you bounce the Butcher in response to targeting, the Butcher will return to your hand before the other creature becomes removed. Once the removal ability is triggered from the stack, the creature will be removed from game permanently since the Butcher left play before the removal ability resolved. mAc DrE: Just like what I told creepyalex, you have to make the proper stack. The damage taken from City of Brass goes on the stack with any spell you play. Since you tapped your City first then played Shock, the 1 damage to you is put on the stack with the 2 damage dealt to your opponent. Since your opponent chose to respond by tapping a City and an island, his damage from the City will resolve before yours. So even though the Shock is countered, he will be dealt the 1 damage from his City of Brass, he will lose and you will win. The stack does not have to resolve if a player's life total hits 0. Thanks KIP for helping me out!! __________________ HÅñ§¤£¤6⅜5 Snow King, Ruler of all Penguins!AIM Handle:SURFNSKI4REAL King Woopywoopy of the Penguin Clan The more you know, the more you know you don't know. - Socrates Sign your toploaders!! Orders from the Overlord of Squirrels himself!
[Edited 2 times, lastly by HanSolo6385 on March 02, 2002]
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